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sender authentication ?*???!@?

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Keizersozay View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 September 2003 at 12:08pm

I ran into a problem the other day and I need some assistance. My email setup is a bit strange so I will explain.

our mx records point to the server with spam filter on it (like most of you) then once the email passes through spam filter the server forwards it to inself on a differnt port I designated where I have another commercial spam/virus/content filter setup to listen. This other product gets the message, insert disclaimers, checks for viruses etc. then it is forwarded to our exchange server. outbound email is sent from our exchange server to the sever with spam filter and the other email scanner on the port that I designated (not 25) so out bound email has disclaimers and virus checks and what not, then the email is sent out to remote servers. The outbound email never touches spamfilter, as it shouldn't.
This has been working awsome for several months without any problems......

Ok, with that said here is the problem.

A user tried to send an email to someone at airmail.net and immediately got a rejection message saying that mail can't be delivered to that domain. it works from yahoo and other places...
So I went to the web site and submitted a message on their support page as follows....

>Dear Airmail.net,

>

>My name is Peter XXX, I am one of the

>System Administrators for XXXX.

>We have users that are trying to email

>recepients in the airmail.net domain and are

>receiving errors. We have verified that

>everything on our end if working but

>continue to get error messages. The error

>message is

>"Sent <<< RCPT TO:<dwvideo@airmail.net>

>Received >>> 550 sender verify failed"

>

>Can you please assist us in resolving this

>issue. My email address is XXXX,

>or you can call me at XXXX.

>Thank you.

Then I get this email back:

Dear Peter,

Thank you for writing Internet America Technical Support.

This message appears to be failing sender verification, one of many

techniques used to block junk mail.

In sender verification, the sending organizations inbound server denies any

the validity of a mailbox, and so we won't accept the message. We ask the server that handles the mail for the address that the mail

supposedly came from, and if it says there is no such box, the mail is rejected.

If it is a real mailbox name,they will need to adjust their mail server so

that it complies with the standards for mail (RFCs).

Note that sender verification is not performed if the destination mailbox

has elected to be excepted from Airscreen.

Thanks,

I have never heard of anyone doing this to allow or not allow mail to be accepted. I though not all mail servers support fingering for alive email address???

I know its long and I appreciate the help
Any Thoughts??

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Desperado View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2003 at 11:00pm
You have a real problem there but if I understand the whole mess, Our servers also would be rejected because we set the "Disallow all SMTP VRFY commands" flag.  Here is the ironic part ... we set that flag to prevent "Address Harvesting" from spammers.  Is their administrator saying that your server must respond to the "VRFY" directive?  If so, tell them that that is the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard of and does THEIR server respond to the "VRFY" directive?   I bet not and what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I bet this is not what you wanted to hear!
 
Dan S.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LogSat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2003 at 12:04am

Peter,

Internet America requires that mail servers comply with RFCs. They need to interpret the RFCs correctly...

I fully agree with Dan on the stupidity of such decision. Disabling the VRFY is one of the 1st things many administrators do nowdays to help fight spammers.

I highlighted below the relevant sections of the RFC that's involved. You may want to explain the administrators of that ISP how the RFC actually works.

Roberto F.
LogSat Software

RFC 2821 states:

================

2.3 Terminology

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
   document are to be interpreted as described below.

   1. MUST   This word, or the terms "REQUIRED" or "SHALL", mean that
      the definition is an absolute requirement of the specification.

   2. MUST NOT   This phrase, or the phrase "SHALL NOT", mean that the
      definition is an absolute prohibition of the specification.

   3. SHOULD   This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that
      there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to
      ignore a particular item
, but the full implications must be
      understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different
      course.

... omissis...

.5.2 VRFY Normal Response

   When normal (2yz or 551) responses are returned from a VRFY or EXPN
   request, the reply normally includes the mailbox name, i.e.,
   "<local-part@domain>", where "domain" is a fully qualified domain
   name, MUST appear in the syntax.  In circumstances exceptional enough
   to justify violating the intent of this specification, free-form text
   MAY be returned.  In order to facilitate parsing by both computers
   and people, addresses SHOULD appear in pointed brackets.  When
   addresses, rather than free-form debugging information, are returned,
   EXPN and VRFY MUST return only valid domain addresses that are usable
   in SMTP RCPT commands.  Consequently, if an address implies delivery
   to a program or other system, the mailbox name used to reach that
   target MUST be given.  Paths (explicit source routes) MUST NOT be
   returned by VRFY or EXPN.

   Server implementations SHOULD support both VRFY and EXPN.  For
   security reasons, implementations MAY provide local installations a
   way to disable either or both of these commands through configuration
   options or the equivalent
.  When these commands are supported, they
   are not required to work across relays when relaying is supported.
   Since they were both optional in RFC 821, they MUST be listed as
   service extensions in an EHLO response, if they are supported.

7.3 VRFY, EXPN, and Security

   As discussed in section 3.5, individual sites may want to disable
   either or both of VRFY or EXPN for security reasons.
As a corollary
   to the above, implementations that permit this MUST NOT appear to
   have verified addresses that are not, in fact, verified.  If a site
   disables these commands for security reasons, the SMTP server MUST
   return a 252 response, rather than a code that could be confused with
   successful or unsuccessful verification.

   Returning a 250 reply code with the address listed in the VRFY
   command after having checked it only for syntax violates this rule.
   Of course, an implementation that "supports" VRFY by always returning
   550 whether or not the address is valid is equally not in
   conformance.

   Within the last few years, the contents of mailing lists have become
   popular as an address information source for so-called "spammers."
   The use of EXPN to "harvest" addresses has increased as list
   administrators have installed protections against inappropriate uses
   of the lists themselves.  Implementations SHOULD still provide
   support for EXPN, but sites SHOULD carefully evaluate the tradeoffs.
   As authentication mechanisms are introduced into SMTP, some sites may
   choose to make EXPN available only to authenticated requestors.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keizersozay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2003 at 10:29am

Robert And Dan,

I appreciate your help with this and with the technical aspects of the RFC's.
I agree with both of you that their isp is pretty stupid for doing this and I will try to help them realize it.

Thanks again,
Peter

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2003 at 12:35am

I recommend that diplomacy is used!  Many Network administrators (excluding myself of course!) get very defensive and then turn ugly.  I have been a Network Operations Manager for many years and have yet to understand why.  I kinda thought that we were all on the same team ... but I also believe in the tooth fairy so ...

Regards,

Dan S

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keizersozay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2003 at 8:27am

Yes, I agree. I don't plan on throwing it in their face.

I also just got this back from Internet America:

Dear Peter,
Thank you for writing Internet America Technical Support.
Our Mail Administrator has responded. Their response is below.
Thanks,
At 03:52 PM 9/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
>This does not pertain to VRFY.
>
>Refusing all bounce messages qualifies you to be put on the
>rfc-ignorant.org blacklist, and causes our servers (among many
>others) to not accept mail from you.
>
>
>% telnet hqfile.lamarhq.com smtp
>Trying 65.XX.72.15...
>Connected to hqfile.XX.com.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220 hqfile.XX.com Welcome to the Lamar Spam Filter SpamFilter for
>ISP
>SMTP Server v1.2.0.201
>helo macwombat.iadfw.net
>250 Hello macwombat.iadfw.net
>mail from:<>
>250 Address Okay
>rcpt to:pdunn@XXX
>521 The EMail is Blacklisted.
>Connection closed by foreign host.
>

I thought this was interesting. So I tried it myself with out a blank from email address (since I dont' allow blank from addresses) and it worked...

220 hqfile.XX.com Welcome to the Lamar Spam Filter SpamFilter for ISP SMTP Server v1.2.0.201
helo pdX.XX.com
250 Hello pdXX.XX.com
mail from:<pdXX.XX.com>
250  Address Okay
rcpt to:<pdunn@XX>
250 pdunn@XXAddress Okay

I am going to send them this info and see what happens.

Thanks for your help...

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